PODCAST: Learning How to See with Brian McLaren — Episode: “Find the Flow” (feat. Jacque Lewis)

What would it mean for us if we happened to live during the decline of the old humanity when a new humanity is in the painful, fragile process of being born? What if some of us are in the process of trying to resuscitate the old, while others of us are conceiving, gestating and giving birth to the new? What if the growth of the new movement, the new humanity, the new social creation or construction depends on the old one losing its hegemony? As I write those words, I can’t help but feel a flood of resonances with the Hebrew scriptures. I feel echoes of Isaiah speaking of God doing a new thing. Something fresh springing forth so that there will be good news for the poor, recovery of sight for the blind, freedom for the incarcerated and oppressed. Oppression of the poor is one of the hallmarks of the old humanity.

I hear the prophet imagining a promised time when weapons are recycled into farm equipment because nobody studies war anymore. War is one of the hallmarks of the old humanity. I hear Ezekiel’s Oracle about a new heart, a heart of flesh that replaces the heart of stone. The hardening of hearts in the name of self-interest and in group interest is a hallmark of the old humanity. I hear Amos envisioning a time when a river of justice rolls down from the heights filling the lowest places first. A concentration of power and wealth at the top is a hallmark of the old humanity. I hear Micah relativized everything in his religion except doing justice, loving kindness, and walking humbly before God. Hoarding power, loving money and walking in racial, religious, or national pride are hallmarks of the old humanity.

In the Christian scriptures, I hear Mary envisioning a time when the rich are sent away to feel the hunger of the poor they have exploited and avoided. A time when the poor are filled with the good things previously enjoyed only by the rich. I hear Jesus speaking parables of a new kingdom of death and resurrection, of God loving the world and wanting to save it, not condemn it. I hear him speaking of coming wars and rumors of wars that mark the death of the status quo, but he sees them as birth pangs, not a last gasp.

I hear Paul speaking of a new creation and a new humanity in Christ, and John describing a new Jerusalem descending to the earth like a giant cube in a science fiction movie. And so I imagine, in the middle of the old meta movement of empires, domination, extraction and exploitation, what if a long succession of prophets, including Mary, John, the Baptizer, Jesus, Paul and others, were giving us a vision for a new movement being born? And what if the Christian religion instead of living into that progressive vision of a better future pretty thoroughly accommodated itself to the old meta movement? And what if the Christian religion married the powers that be and slept more or less comfortably in their arms for nearly 2000 years?

COMPLETE INTERVIEW: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/learning-how-to-see-with-brian-mclaren/id1532685433

TRASCRIPT: https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/LHTS_Transcript_S4_Episode5.pdf